First, of all, the commons of external nature, threatened by pollution, global warming and so on. squarely throws under the bus as failed. So it seems to me likely we will see tonight not only deep differences, but also surprising agreement on deep questions. And I must agree. This page has been accessed 35,754 times. A renunciation of pleasure can easily turn in pleasure of renunciation itself. It's hard not to crack up when out of time for That snapped him back into his skill set: self-defense. argument abbreviated: There are three necessary features which distinguish a bad Marx paper: The article also has a nice summary of Peterson's opening Aquella vez me parecieron ms slidos los argumentos del primero. [15], Later in the debate, iek agreed with Peterson's opening analysis and called for regulation and limitation of the market for capitalism to reduce the risk of natural and social disasters. back to this pre-modern state of affairs. First, since we live in a modern era, we cannot simply refer to an unquestionable authority to confer a mission or task on us. The title of the debate was "Happiness: Capitalism v. Marxism." The structure of the debate was that each participant presented a thirty-minute introduction followed by a series of brief ten-minute responses to one another. You're currently offline; make sure to connect for latest articles. They do not have an answer to the real problems that face us: the environment and the rise of China as a successful capitalist state without democracy. Theres nothing to support, proposed Peterson, that a dictatorship of the proletariat would bring about a good outcome, especially considering the lessons of Soviet atrocities in the 20th century. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. For transcription of Zizeks first exposition (the actually coherent one I believe), I found that it had already been transcribed on Reddit during my own transcription so I integrated it into this one. If you look closely, you will say that state plays today a more important role precisely in the richest capitalist economics. Directly sharing your experience with our beloved may appear attractive, but what about sharing them with an agency without you even knowing it? I call this the tankie-bashing bit. either, but points a problem with capitalism on what Marx called "commons" (I Below is the transcript of zizek's introductory statement. Peterson: Otherwise, the creative types would sit around and see them again. But even it its extreme form opening up our borders to the refugees, treating them like one of us they only provide what in medicine is called a symptomatic treatment. [2], Peterson has been seen as misusing the term postmodernism, referring to postmodern philosophy, as a stand-in term for the far-right and antisemitic Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory. Zizek called out for the necessity of addressing climate change while also focusing on such issues as Bernie Sanders, whom he called an old-fashioned moralist. Zizek sees Sanders as being unfairly portrayed as a radical. You know, its not very often that you see a country's, largest theatre packed for an intellectual debate, but that's what we're all here for tonight. This is why egalitarianism itself should never be accepted at its face value. From todays experience, we should rather speak to Steven Weinbergs claim that while without religion good people would have been doing good things and bad people bad things, only religion can make good people do bad things. Canad. Globalnews.ca your source for the latest news on presidential debate. So, how to act? Im Zentrum der Dissertation steht die Typologisierung des homme fatal, des verhngnisvollen Verfhrers innerhalb der englischen Erzhlliteratur von der Romantik bis ins fin de sicle. They are both concerned with more fundamental. Peterson's more practically-oriented style also made his arguments a bit more approachable to non-academics. For more information, please see our Maybe we should turn around a little bit Marxs famous thesis, in our new century we should say that maybe in the last century we tried all too fast to try the world. Billed as "The Debate But if violence perpetuated in the name of an idea is supposed to disqualify the idea, then more people have died in the name of communism and nationalism than any other idea. First by admitting we are in a deep mess. Let me now briefly deal with in a friendly way I claim with what became known sorry for the irony as the lobster topic. The controversial thinkers debated happiness, capitalism and Marxism in Toronto. Please note, during tonight's presentation, video, audio, and flash photography is prohibited and we have a strict zero, tolerance policy for any heckling or disruption. Still, that criticism would be salutary for most "communists" He's the sort of aging quitter we all hope to never be. They are both highly attuned to ideology and the mechanisms of power, and yet they are not principally political thinkers. Somehow hectoring mobs have managed to turn him into an icon of all they are not. Peterson El debate entre Slavoj iek y Jordan Peterson posmodernismo. El debate entre iek y Peterson se produjo en Toronto, Canad. "[23], In commenting directly on how the debate was received, iek wrote: "It is typical that many comments on the debate pointed out how Petersons and my position are really not so distinct, which is literally true in the sense that, from their standpoint, they cannot see the difference between the two of us: I am as suspicious as Peterson. self-reproducing nature to ("the historical necessity of progress towards a.Teams are iterating, but the system is not b.Conflict and disagreement on processes and practices are difficult to, Program Increment (PI) Planning is a major event that requires preparation, coordination, and communication. And what about foreign interventions in Iraq and Syria, or by our proxies like Saudi Arabia in Yemen? The paper contains almost no references to any other texts, either by Marx or by other socialist thinkers. Maybe that's why last night I finally caved and watched Canadian psychology professor Jordan Peterson take on Slovenian quasi-Marxist psychoanalyst and cultural theorist Slavoj Zizek. We will probably slide towards apocalypse, he said. The very premise of tonight's event is that we all participate in the life of, thought. Please feel free to correct this document. How jelly-like bodies help sea creatures survive extreme conditions, How eccentric religions were born in 19th-century America, Land of paradoxes: the inner and outer Iran with Delphine Minoui. intellectuals). This largely contrasts Peterson's viewpoint who admittedly has never used that term to refer in any way to the associated conspiracy theory, but only to raise critique about cultural phenomena that are, according to him, directly associated with postmodern thought. Slavoj iek, psychoanalytic philosopher, cultural critic, and Hegelian Marxist. {notificationOpen=false}, 2000);" x-data="{notificationOpen: false, notificationTimeout: undefined, notificationText: ''}">, We all get monkey mind and neuroscience supports the Buddhist solution, The mystery of New Zealands Tamil Bell, an archaeological UFO. In the Nazi vision, their society is an organic whole of harmonic collaboration, so an external intruder is needed to account for divisions and antagonisms. Studebaker wrote that "Zizek read a bizarre, meandering, canned speech which had very little to do with anything Peterson said or with the assigned topic. Both Zizek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debate we hope will transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame of happiness of human flourishing itself. [2][16][17][18] In the end, they both agreed that happiness is rather a byproduct of life itself. Is there, in todays United States, really too much equality? If I visit your debate with Jordan Peterson it's on YouTube I felt you won that debate, and it's striking to me, the discussion between 1 hour 10 minutes and 1 hour 18 minutes. It's also entertaining to watch, and I suspect this was the mode in which most clear these are coherent thoughts from the same thinker. Second on how modernity is characterized by the absence of authority (and Last nights sold-out debate between Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek and Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson at the Sony Centre was pitched as a no-holds-barred throw down . Believers call him God the Father. But can God be called a man? I hope reading the debate will help me understand the arguments better. What's perhaps most surprising is that Zizek doesn't defend Marxism, which he Conservative thinkers claim that the origin of our crisis is the loss of our reliance on some transcendent divinity. talking about wherever he felt like that was tenuously related rather than Petersons opening remarks were disappointing even for his fans in the audience. But, it is instantly clear how this self-denigration brings a profit of its own. A democracy this logic to the political space in spite of all differences in competence, the ultimate decision should stay with all of us. Postmodernism: History and Diagnosis Transcript Dr. Jordan Peterson 2019-05-17T08:28:01-04:00. He makes a big deal out of how he obsessed about When I was younger to give you a critical example there was in Germany with obsession with the dying of forests with predictions that in a couple of decades Europe would be without forests. White, left liberals love to denigrate their own culture and claim euro-centrism for our evils. So, how to react to this? Regarding to the Peterson-Zizek debate as a whole, yes, I would recommend a listen. What I Learned at the 'Debate' Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek iek was less a cognizant thinker and more a pathological sacred cow tipper while Peterson was a bard for the. Similarly, he's crusading against Transcript of Zizek vs. Peterson Discussing "Happiness, Capitalism vs. Marxism" April 23, 2019 April 25, 2019 Emily I present a transcript of the Zizek vs. Peterson discussion. Zizek Peterson Debate Transcript. self-reproducing nature, though he points out that communism had this Look at Bernie Sanders program. And I also think this may be critical to some of you there is a problem with capitalism here for the simple reasons that its managers not because of their evil nature, but thats the logic of capitalism care to extend self-reproduction and environmental consequences are simply not part of the game. He said things like Marx thought the proletariat was good and the bourgeoisie was evil. sticking to "his camp", but I feel like the resulting discussing ended up more Zizek makes many interesting points. With anti-Semitism, we are approaching the topic of telling stories. The threat of ecological catastrophe, the consequence of new techno-scientific developments, especially in biogenetics, and new forms of apartheid. Hitler provided a story, a plot, which was precisely that of a Jewish plot: we are in this mess because of the Jews. The recent debate between Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson lived up to the hype. We often need a master figure to push us out an inertia and, Im not afraid to say, that forces us to be free. them, of all things, to French cuisine) are also worth a listen/read. It's quite interesting, but it's not There are two teams, each consisting of two or three speakers. Peterson and iek represent a basic fact of intellectual life in the twenty-first century: we are defined by our enemies. Peterson had said that people should seek meaning through personal responsibility and iek had said that happiness is pointless and delusional. The pathological element is the husbands need for jealousy as the only way for him to sustain his identity. My hero is here a black lady, Tarana Burke, who created the #MeToo campaign more than a decade ago. The debate, titled "Happiness: Marxism vs. Capitalism," pitted Jordan Peterson against Slavoj iek, two of the West's reigning public intellectuals. We are responsible for our burdens. But I nonetheless found it interesting. Boston 24/7 with principal mcafee However, in place of charging a fee and in recognition of the work I put, in, I would strongly ask anybody who found extensive use of it to give a small donation of $5 or more to. ) IQ, Politics, and the Left: A Conversation with Douglas Murray Transcript Nina Paley: Animator Extraordinaire Transcript Aspen Ideas Festival: From the Barricades of the Culture Wars Transcript Happiness is a confused notion, basically it relies on the subjects inability or unreadiness to fully confront the consequences of his / her / their desire. Canadian bill prohibiting discrimination based on gender, "Jordan Peterson, Slavoj Zizek each draw fans at sold-out debate", "The 'debate of the century': what happened when Jordan Peterson debated Slavoj iek", "How Anti-Leftism Has Made Jordan Peterson a Mark for Fascist Propaganda", "There Is No One to Cheer for in the Potential Battle Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek", "Why do people find Jordan Peterson so convincing? Studebaker concludes that "Peterson didn't prepare. Zizek expressed his agreement with Petersons critique of PC culture, pointing out that he is attacked as much by the Left that he supposedly represents as the right. I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. Press J to jump to the feed. But, a danger lurks here, that of a subtly reversal: dont fall in love thats my position with your suffering. With no biogenetic technologies, the creation of a new man, in the literal sense of changing human nature, becomes a realistic prospect. The true opposite of egotist self-love is not altruism a concern for the common good but envy, resentment, which makes me act against my own interests. Most of the attacks on me are from left-liberals, he began, hoping that they would be turning in their graves even if they were still alive. I see equality as a space for creating differences and yes, why not, even different more appropriate hierarchies. iek is more or less a Gen X nostalgia act at this point, a living memento from a time when you would sit around the college bar and regale your fellow students about the time you saw that eastern European prof eating a couple of hot dogs in the street. The idea that people themselves should decide what to do about ecology sounds deep, but it begs an important question, even with their comprehension is no distorted by corporate interests. But, are the Chinese any happier for all that? It was billed as a meeting of titans and that it was not. She observed in a recent critical note that in the years since the movement began it deployed an unwavering obsession with the perpetrators. cordial and respectful, something I really appreciated. If we are left to ourselves, if everything is historically conditioned and relative, then there is nothing preventing us from indulging in our lowest tendencies. causes (from Donald Trump to migrants). In intellectual circles, the recent debate of the century between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson and Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek was a real heavyweight bout. iek didnt really address the matter at hand, either, preferring to relish his enmities. I have a hard time understanding Zizek, and am admittedly completely out of my depth when it comes to philosophy and Marxism and all the nitty gritty. And, incidentally Im far from believing in ordinary peoples wisdom. So, a pessimist conclusion, what will happen? Zizek and Peterson went head-to-head recently at a debate in Toronto. Zizek and Peterson sell books for cash, but cash is just what you need for the real prize: the minds of men. White, multi-culturalist liberals embody the lie of identity politics. The paper contains a long digression about all the reasons the Soviet Union was terrible. Just remember the outcry against my critique of LGBT+ ideology, and Im sure that if the leading figures were to be asked if I were fit to stand for them, they would turn in their graves even if they are still alive. google, pretty well on the center-right, and pretty badly on the left (broadly). He is a conservative. Competencies for what? The past should be altered by the present as much as the present is directed by the past end of quote. If you're curious, here's the timestamp for the joke. Again, even if there if the reported incidents with the refugees there are great problems, I admit it even if all these reports are true, the popularist story about them is a lie. this event had the possibility to reach a much wider audience. The debate, rightly or wrongly, permanently situated iek as Peterson's opposite in the war for young minds. SLAVOJ IEK: . Peterson opens with a 30-minutes speech where he criticizes the communist with its constellation of thinkers. Zizek was hard to follow in his prepared statement, he becomes Bonus: Zizek on the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Zizek on the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Error message: "The request cannot be completed because you have exceeded your. In Peterson's defense, he did manage to stay much closer to the actual topic of the debate, while Zizek jumped wildly between a dizzying number of subjects. [5] He also criticized Peterson's discussion of "cultural Marxism", stating that "his crazy conspiracy theory about LGBT+ rights and #MeToo as the final offshoots of the Marxist project to destroy the West is, of course, ridiculous. Thats what I would like to insist on we are telling ourselves stories about ourselves in order to acquire a meaningful experience of our lives. After writing less than nothing, zizek thought that he didn't yet get to the basic thought, that is the reason he wrote absolute recoil, a more difficult book than less than nothing, according. [22], Der Spiegel concluded that iek won the debate clearly, describing Peterson as "vain enough to show up to an artillery charge with a pocket knife". First of all it's much shorter than Peterson Vs Harris. [2] He asserted that it is wrong to perceive history only through a lens of class struggle, there is no exclusively "good" proletariat and "bad" bourgeoisie, such identity politics is prone to authoritarian manipulation, and that in his view people do not climb the social hierarchies only by taking advantage of others. List of journal articles on the topic 'Marxism in politics, economy and philosophy / Criticism'. Peterson, in his opening remarks, noted that scalped tickets were selling at higher prices than the Maple Leafs playoff game happening on the other side of town. (Chinas success makes a joke out of the whole premise of the debate: the old-fashioned distinction between communism and capitalism.) This is how refugees are created. Modernity means that yes, we should carry the burden, but the main burden is freedom itself. matters: meaning, truth, freedom. For example, an example not from neo-conservatives. April 20, 2019. Peterson is neither a racist nor a misogynist. Doctor Slavoj iek is as philosopher. attacking the manifesto isn't perhaps attacking Communism or even Marxism as its Capitalism won, but today and thats my claim, we can debate about it the question is, does todays global capitalism contain strong enough antagonisms that prevent its indefinite reproduction. Peterson noted at the outset that he'd set a personal milestone: StubHub tickets to the debate were going for more money than Maple Leafs playoff ticketsa big deal in Toronto. If we learned anything from psychoanalysis, its that we humans are very creative in sabotaging our pursuit of happiness. So, I agree that human life of freedom and dignity does not The twentieth century left was defined by its opposition to the truth fundamental tendencies of modernity: the reign of capital with its aggressive market competition, the authoritarian bureaucratic state power. They argued whether capitalism or communism would be the best economic and political system. The Jordan Peterson-Slavoj iek debate was good for something Andray Domise: Debate has its place in debunking bad actors and their ideas, but it only works when the participants have. Does Donald Trump stand for traditional values? By the end of his half-hour he had not mentioned the word happiness once. History and diagnosis transcript dr. Peterson discussing "happiness, capitalism vs. Extracto del debate realizado el 19 04 19 entre el psiclogo clnico y crtico cultural jordan peterson y el filsofo y psicoanalista slavoj . Zizek is particularly culpable here, for divinity) that could impose meaning from above, and how it's impossible to go He's also quite Life and career Early life iek was born in Ljubljana, PR Slovenia, Yugoslavia, into a middle-class family. I crunched some numbers to find out", "Best academic steel-cage match ever? Related research topic ideas. It seems that our countries are run relatively well, but is the mess the so-called rogue countries find themselves in not connected to how we interact with them? should have replied to defend communism. Zizek versus Peterson Peterson argues against the postmodern neo-Marxist position held by, in his terms, "the radical left." This position emerged during the '60s but was initiated by the Frankfurt School, which emerged after World War II as a response to the rise of fascism in Europe. It projects, or transposes, some immanent antagonism however you call it, ambiguity, tension of our social economic lives onto an external cause, in exactly the same way. Because the left doesn't have its own house in order", "Is 'cultural Marxism' really taking over universities? But this divine spark enables us to create what Christians call holy ghost or holy spirit a community which hierarchic family values are at some level, at least, abolished. He also denied there is an inherent tendency under capitalism to mistreat the workers, stating you dont rise to a position of authority that is reliable in a human society primarily by exploiting other people. Overall, Peterson appeared to see capitalism as the best, though imperfect, economic model. As the debate ostensibly revolved around comparing capitalism to Marxism, Peterson spent the majority of his 30-minute introduction assailing The Communist Manifesto, in fact coming up with 10 reasons against it. interesting because of it. In the end Peterson-iek was less of a heavyweight boxing match than a WWE Grand Slam. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Burgis, Ben; Hamilton, Conrad Bongard; McManus, Matthew; Trejo, Marion (2020). In this sense of playing with traditional values of mixing references to them with open obscenities, Trump is the ultimate post-modern president. Another summary of the Peterson/iek debate. Zizek's opening statement is probably the most interesting part of the debate. What appears as its excesses its regulatory zeal is I think an impotent reaction that masks the reality of a defeat. I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. It is todays capitalism that equalizers us too much and causes the loss of many talents. [16] Similarly to Winston Churchill, he concluded that "capitalism is the worst economic system, except for all the others". Why would the proletariat be more capable of leading? So, the term Cultural Marxism plays that of the Jewish plot in anti-Semitism. I encourage you to watch the video or read the transcript It came right at the end of ieks opening 30-minute remarks. We live in one and the same world which is more and more interconnected. Peterson retreats into the integrity of character and Judeo-Christian values as he sees them. Not merely opinion or prejudice, but the realm of truth, access through evidence and, argument. "[1][6] According to Matthew Sharpe writing for The Conversation, .mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 40px}.mw-parser-output .templatequote .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;padding-left:1.6em;margin-top:0}, the term 'cultural Marxism' moved into the media mainstream around 2016, when psychologist Jordan Peterson was protesting a Canadian bill prohibiting discrimination based on gender. And we should act in a large scale, collective way. is dead and he never amended his manifesto that I know of. This Was An Interesting Debate. agreement (as well they should, adopting neither deluded far-left or far-right Why do I still cling to this cursed name when I know and fully admit that the 20th century Communist project in all its failure, how it failed, giving birth to new forms of murderous terror. Im far from a simple social constructionism here. or a similar conservation organization. Forced marriages and homophobia is ok, just as long as they are limited to another country which is otherwise fully included in the world market. of the Century" was overhyped (overmarketed, really), and seemed poorly prepared And sure, the level of the discussion might have been unappealing to all the [9] Billed by some as "the debate of the century",[2] the event had more tickets scalped than the Toronto Maple LeafsBoston Bruins playoff on the same day, and tickets sold on eBay for over $300. It is often claimed that true or not that religion makes some otherwise bad people do good things. Peterson has risen to fame on the basis of his refusal to pay the usual fealties to political correctness. Privacy Policy. knowledgeable about communism. However, this is not enough. Can we even imagine how the fragile balance of our earth functions and in what unpredictable ways geo-engineering can disturb it? [9], Writing for Current Affairs, Benjamin Studebaker criticized both Peterson and iek, calling the debate "one of the most pathetic displays in the history of intellectuals arguing with each other in public". The Hidden Argument in the Zizek/Peterson Debate, From a Competitive Debator | by Timothy Clark | Dialogue & Discourse | Medium 500 Apologies, but something went wrong on our end. It has been said of the debate that " nothing is a greater waste of time ." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. consist just in searching for happiness, no matter how much we spiritualise The Petersoniek debate, officially titled Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, was a debate between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson (a clinical psychologist and critic of Marxism) and the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj iek (a psychoanalyst and Hegelian) on the relationship between Marxism, capitalism, and happiness. But Zizek was too busy complaining about identity politics and his status within academia to try. Furthermore, I think that social power and authority cannot be directly grounded in competence. [7], Peterson said he could meet "any time, any place"[1][4][8] to debate and it was announced on 28 February 2019 that the debate was scheduled for 19 April 2019. There can be few thingsI thinknow more, urgent and necessary in an age of reactionary partisan allegiance and degraded civil discourse than real, thinking about hard questions. The paper contains a close reading of the Manifesto. This is NOT a satire/meme sub. Peterson is his usual intensely-driven professorial self, which I personally Rules for Life, as if there were such things. Did we really move too much in the direction of equality? He has published more than three, dozen books, many on the most seminal philosophers of the 19th and 20th centuries. Incidentally, so that you will not think that I do not know what I am talking about, in Communist countries those in power were obsessed with expanded reproduction, and were not under public control, so the situation was even worse. Learn how your comment data is processed. What does this mean? yardstick: In our daily lives, we pretend to desire things which we do not really desire, There was a livestream which people could pay to access that peaked at around 6,000 viewers.
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